hi amy! forgive me for not joining the discussion yet. i need a couple more chapters. if i don't join tonight, i will tomorrow!

ana | March 22, 2004 5:30 PM

Amy, as I mentioned in my earlier comment, I found this book difficult to get into at the beginning. However, things began to pick up after Number Ten Ox brought Master Li into the story. Despite Li being such a clever shyster, my favorite character would have to be Ox simply because of his innocence. He marvels at things and I preferred that to Li's wisdom.

The plot itself was kind of predictable since it became pretty obvious when the Root of Power (Great Root? Legs of Power? I couldn't keep all of the pieces straight) was found within the first 3rd of the book with many pages left to go. It was no surprise that the children weren't cured and another quest had to be started.

My favorite adventure was the Sword Dance between Ox and Bright Star. His descriptions of the various moves (Eighth Drake Under the River Bridge and Ice Falling from a Mountaintop) made me laugh and I could totally picture the scene in my head. It reminded me of a comical kung fu movie with swords flying and Ox slicing himself to ribbons.

marydell | March 22, 2004 10:44 PM

I liked Ox as well and the way Master Li occasionally used him to "preoccupy" some of the ladies in the story.

I think my favorite part was… I actually can’t pick one. I like them all but I especially liked all the scams that Master Li thought up. The goat pooping gold, the art of porcupine cookery, etc.

I’d love this book to be made into a movie.

amy | March 23, 2004 8:16 AM

hello

ok i'm ready :)

i think my favorite character was master li too. he comes up with such things. he had a way to get around things for anything.

okay, i think Ox was also my favorite character. i say both are because all the other characters, honestly, are just jumbled up together. i distinctly remember the father of the fainting maid and the fainting maid. everyone else, oh, except for the ancestress?, i couldn't differentiate. i feel like there were so many characters, or too many characters for the length of this book. or maybe not. i dunno what i'm talking about...!

the plot, at first, from reading the back of the book, i thought would be different. or wait, i just didn't pay attention to what i was reading (the back of the book).

i was surprised that the children getting sick came so early in the story. then i realized that the book would concentrate on the adventures in obtaining the Great Root of Power.

i have to be honest though, i skipped through some stuff when it started talking about the past or of rules and such. the way everything had a name, like how actions had names was sooo confusing to me. i don't think that i know exactly what i read. i just wanted to get past all the names and just know what happens, get to the bottom of the plot.

ana | March 23, 2004 8:54 PM

What Ana has said about both Ox and Li being her favorite characters make sense. They really are sort of one unit and make a good duo. I'm kind of reminded of Master Blaster from Beyond Thunderdome with the way Ox carries Li around everywhere. Except Ox isn't learning disabled and Li isn't a little person.

Amy, making this book into a movie would be some project. There are so many scenes and characters that it'd be really difficult to keep them all straight. A bunch of stuff would also probably have to be left out, thus making the movie suck like so many adaptations from novels.

I forgot about the goat pooping bit. Poor goat. :)

marydell | March 23, 2004 10:44 PM

Hi all,

Amy, I have to say thanks. I haven't been this thoroughly charmed by a novel in years. Truly, I even hesitate to call it a novel. Fairytale or fable seems like it would be a far better descriptive...

I think I really enjoyed the simplicity of the book the most, especially in a book full of plot twists and character revelations. I guess what I mean can best be stated by looking at Miser Shen. When we first meet him, he's a bad guy. No problem, but then, later on, he's a good guy. And, again, there's no problem. There's no questioning, wondering if Miser Shen is being duplicitous, no concern that he may be a bad guy in disguise - he's just a good guy now. End of story.

I really enjoyed that. As others have commented, I couldn't choose between Ox and Li as a favorite character. They do seem to be combined and to work well as one character. Although, I have to say, I think "Number Ten Ox" is the best name for a character I've ever read. Everything you need to know about his character is right there in his name.

I think I also really enjoyed the idea that we were reading the first part of a story of how Master Li became a deity.

Thanks again for introducing me to this book.

Joel | March 24, 2004 4:51 AM

Some comments – probably too many, but oh well.

First of all, I appreciated Master Li’s flaws – that of drinking too much but not really harming anyone but himself, and since he is so old, that really hasn’t happened either, and secondly, a murderer, but a murderer who only murders those who truly deserve it. Not really flawed at all, And best of all one has to love the eye half-closed sign. That is absolutely great.

Now on to favorite characters – what about Miser Shen? We definitely dislike him in the beginning but as we learn his true story and the life changing act caused by Duke of Ch’in that resulted in the loss of his only daughter, Ah Chen, we begin to realize that he is not such a bad guy and in the end wants to be a tree, and one that will be forever called Old Generosity nonetheless. It is interesting to note that an old Chinese story says that the path to immortality is to write a book, have a child, and plant a tree. So, in a sense, Miser Shen has found his immorality in becoming a tree that will provide comforting shade for the people. (Funny that Joel mentioned Miser Shen)

The heart – I found the writing about Ginseng to be one of the most interesting parts of the book for me and probably will have more to say about it later, but for now will give you my thoughts about the heart. The Great Root of Power was divided into four parts – head, arms, legs, and heart. None worked but the heart. The heart was central to healing. The quote from p.197 goes like this, “the Heart of Power is indeed the ultimate healing agent in the whole world.” The heart is a universal healing agent. This is something that almost all societies recognize. It is not the mind, or anything external that is the key to healing, but it is the heart. Without the heart, there is no will to live. Also, I noted that both Duke of Ch’in, totally mad with power, and the Wisest Man in the World, totally corrupt, were both without a heart.

Ok, enough rambling for now – thanks for listening.

Steve | March 24, 2004 6:09 AM

I found a great photo of the sword dance, albeit from Korea, but really gives one a feel for the dance. Is there any way to post a photo -- I cannot figure out a way.

Steve | March 24, 2004 6:49 AM

Regarding Korean sword dance photo: I post my pictures in a photo album on MyYahoo. If you have an account, you can create a photo album (but make sure the photos have world viewable permissions).

About the simplicity of the characters: I enjoyed that as well. I was re-reading Bridge of Brids in the midst of an Asian book streak. There was Norwegian Wood and Books 1 and 2 of the Tales of the Otori (which I highly recommend). The way people talked and behaved was very straight forward, so I accepted this effortlessly in Bridge of Birds as well.

I have to say that I thought this was a somewhat risky book to choose as group reading material, but I haven't heard any really negative comments about it (yet). I think Ana makes a valid point when she said she just wantet to know what happened and get to the bottom of the plot. This fable (thanks, Joel) is like going down a river in a boat: either you paddle to your destination and get there or just let the current take you and see what happens. Does that make sense? I that's two kinds of reading styles. Neither one is right or wrong, just different.

Ana, did you enjoy the book? Or was it a chore to read?

amy | March 24, 2004 7:49 AM

i did enjoy reading it. i liked the story, overall.
some parts i liked more than others.
i think something's wrong with me...the parts i didn't enjoy were the parts that confused me...again, what i mentioned before, when there was a lot of naming going on, that really really confusesd me!

i agree with steve, on master li's flaws.

you know, i honestly am trying to put a face/character on miser shen...is he the one that wanted the gold coins from the goat?

i think that this next commnet probably applies to me only: there was an instant smile on my face when they talked about silkworms ;)

ana | March 24, 2004 1:36 PM

i want to see the picture of the sword dance...

ana | March 24, 2004 1:37 PM

Miser Shen (whom I misread as "Mister" Shen until Ana commented on Steve's comment) was the man duped by the gold-pooping goat near the beginning of the book. Master Li and Number Ten Ox ran into him again, later in the book, on the roof of a tower (where they were left to starve or jump off). Miser Shen had been reduced to pauper by Lotus Cloud. Anyway, the three had many adventures (Hand of Hell, Cavern of Bells) and Miser Shen told the story of his daughter, Ah Chen, and how he lost her and became a miser.

amy | March 24, 2004 2:35 PM

Some mysteries in the book, at least to me:

Why is the winter wind like ginseng and mustard? (p.37)

What is a cricket fight? (p.38)

Moonflowers? I would for sure like to grow some of these in my yard.

He mentions the island of Taiwan. The Portuguese named the island Formosa in the 1500-1600’s and it stayed that way until the KMT occupied it the late 1940’s with the fall of mainland China to Mao Tse-Tung (old spelling) and the communists. Was it called Taiwan before then?

Cinderella and Jack and Bean stock? Why did he put this in – I am clueless (p.139)

I was also amused by his story of the emperor who, at a State banquet, served a dinosaur that had been found frozen in Mongolia. This just conjures up a totally surreal image in my mind but one that I cannot seem to shake. (p.156)

Steve | March 25, 2004 5:33 AM

I have tried to create a yahoo photo album for the Sword Dance photo as recommended by Amy. Here is the address

http://photos.yahoo.com/griffin_229

If it doesn't work, I will try again.

Steve | March 25, 2004 5:43 AM

Wow! That's a pretty far out picture! It looks like a ghost.

As for the Moonflowers... there's a kind of morning glory that's white and only blooms at night. Maybe it's like that.

I took the winter to be like ginseng and mustard to be sharp and biting. (Their mustard is wasabi.) So, if you eat plain wasabi and raw ginseng, it's like a lightening bolt going through your nose.

It is weird that Hughart mentions fairy tale we're familiar with... I don't know...

amy | March 25, 2004 7:27 AM

Just got my library notice in the mail saying they are holding this book for me! Haha. Oh well I tried. I can't really afford to go out buy a ton of books. I will pick up the book though at the library today or tomorrow and read it anyway even though it looks like most of the discussion has already taken place. Le sigh.

KC | March 25, 2004 6:00 PM

My take on some of these:

"Why is the winter wind like ginseng and mustard?" I agree with Amy on this. The Chinese herbalist near my apartment recommends ginseng for everything. It's a really stong smell - clears your sinuses like you wouldn't believe...

"What is a cricket fight?" I have no idea. I took this to be a fanciful creation - something the author put in there to remind us of how long ago and far away that this story is.

He mentions the island of Taiwan..." I think this is a modern naming convenience, rather than a historically acurate name. He uses Mandarin as a language name in much the same way. (Mandarin is the English word for the language, not the Chinese one.)

joel | March 25, 2004 10:44 PM

kc: don't worry, i'll keep this discussion going as long as people post comments to it.

>Mandarin is the English word for the language, not the Chinese one.

That's really interesting. So when we talk about people speaking Mandarin, we're essentially saying they speak a language?

amy | March 26, 2004 7:18 AM

ginseng really is a strong smell.
it's great.
my dad makes a ginseng tea (i'm sure other people do too) when one of us is sick or when he is sick.
so what you do is get the ginseng root (is that the correct term?) and you chop it up or mash it. then you put it in a cup, for tea or coffee, and add water to it. heat it up in the microwave (beverage setting).
then you drain the water into another cup, add honey and lemon to it and you're all set.
it does a throat really really good!
it's the best

ana | March 26, 2004 12:14 PM

Joel and anyone else who might be interested - I couldn’t leave the cricket fighting idea alone so did a little looking on the internet and found there is quite a bit there. Please read the below:

Start internet quote -- There are references to crickets in the earliest Chinese literature, but it was only in the Tang Dynasty (613-905 A.D.) that the Chinese began to keep them in cages, and that the care of crickets really developed into an art. In the Sung Dynasty (960-1280 A.D.) the sport of cricket fighting started. The story of cricket culture in China, with its gourds, cages, feeding pans, ivory and pigs hair ticklers, tweezers, traps, etc., is a very interesting one.

The fighting crickets (called qu-qu, as in Chattanooga Choo Choo) are captured toward the end of summer by dealers who scour the countryside for the best specimen. Some counties are famous for having especially fierce fighting crickets, and these traditionally command enormous prices, even today when cricket fighting is outlawed. There are 67 varieties of fighting crickets, and those that chirp the loudest are considered to be the boldest and bring the highest prices.

In the olden days "young Chinese fanciers have been known to ruin themselves by investing in large studs of these insects, which are not only expensive to buy, but also to keep. Very fine specimens are as expensive as racing ponies. They require special attendants, as horses require grooms, and separate stalls--earthenware pots lined with fine mould and fitted with a microscopic cup for their drinking water." These special clay pots are still manufactured today, and antique ones still available in the market. Singing as well as fighting crickets can be kept in them.

There were special diets for the fighting crickets, special medicines if they caught cold, and even conjugal visits, with "every male allowed to have a lady in his tiny earthen cage for two hours each evening." Before the big fight started, the combatants were tickled with cricket ticklers. When they were released they flew at each other in a rage at having been so harassed. The winner bore the proud name of "Conquering Cricket" and upon his death he was buried in a silver coffin, "with the hope that more good fighting crickets, attracted by the honorable funeral, will be found next year near its grave." End internet quote.

Can you believe cricket conjugal visits and cricket ticklers? Ok, I am amazed.

Amy, am I going on here? when do we stop talking about this book? I am a plebe here so please forgive me.

Steve | March 29, 2004 5:59 AM

I'm not sure when the discussion date for Life of Pi will be, but I get a ping every time someone posts here, so I know to reply. I found the cricket info interesting. I'm not sure if Barry Hughart spent time in Asia or just reseached it really well, but there seems to be a lot of valid folklore/mythology he uses.

And on the subject of crickets, it's Korean superstition that a cricket in the house is good luck and you have to leave them alone to do their own thing. My mother is Korean and when I was a kid, I occationally ended up laying on the living room floor watching t.v. with a cricket next to me. (I also keep meaning to call her for Sword Dance info...)

amy | March 29, 2004 7:18 AM

In the back of the version of the book that I have it says that Hughart spent time in Japan while in the military, and that he was focused on China.

It is interesting to note that Koreans feel that having a cricket in the house is good luck --the same holds true for Japan. I wonder when this culturally crossed over from one to the other. Maybe during the Japanese occupation of Korea. Or maybe earlier.

Steve | March 29, 2004 7:19 PM

Finally spoke with my mom last night and asked her about Sword Dancing. She just said it's a traditional dance performed at traditional times. Whatever that means. I think she was hedgey about the whole thing because she used to be a sword dancer and talking about it brings up too many painful memories.

amy | March 30, 2004 7:40 AM