Forgiveness is a conscious act that is essential for the social culture. It is a noble act that I admire. However, time also leads to acts of forgiveness that may not be as meaningful in some cases.

All three (culture, class and religion) shape our willingness to "take abuse" and forgive easily genetics may also play a role to make us either take the abuse or fight back. does "turning the other cheek" make one a weak person?

john | April 27, 2005 12:10 PM

John, I think that often it takes tremendous strength to "turn the other cheek." Yet somehow, some people perceive it as weakness. And certainly Hassan's ability to forgive Amir is a very noble act. (pleeeeze lets not talk about Hassan "turning the other cheek" with Assef !!)

I can't recall if the book addresses the Muslim teachings regarding forgiveness. The stoning at the soccer field doesn't seem to suggest there is room for it...but then, the book is quick to point out that the Taliban rule is a corrupt, evil perversion is the muslim faith. yes?

barbara | April 27, 2005 12:51 PM

I'm not sure about this one.

I think maybe Amir needs to learn to forgive himself. Once he can do this he can move on. He betrays Hassan the first time by not stepping in to help him. But because he can't forgive himself and live with the constant reminder of his betrayal he betrays Hassan again by setting him up.

I think forgiveness is a conscious act. But it is more than just a decision to forgive - it has to be backed up by a wholehearted desire to really want to forgive. I'm interested to see what everyone else thinks about this.

I guess the stoning shows what happens in a society where there is no foregiveness.

Danny | April 29, 2005 9:35 AM

Danny, in your comment from the first thread about sin, you said Amir's betrayal of Hassan was "unforgiveable perhaps."

Is Amir redeemed in the end? He seems to have forgiven his father. Does he forgive himself?

What did you think of him reclaiming relgious practice and prayer? I had a hard time with that. People find God a LOT in the hospital. But does it really stick?

barbara | April 29, 2005 12:39 PM

from pg 302..."that is what true redemption is, when guilt leads to good." Rahim

So by that standard, I guess Amir qualifies as redeemed. But at the end, I was not feeling too symathetic toward him. That poor child, Sohrab, was he supposed to be some lifelong penance for Amir?

barbara | April 29, 2005 12:46 PM

Hi everybody, sorry so late, having quite finished the book even yet! Anyway, it really irked me that Amir didn't decide to rescue Sohrab until he found out Hassan was his actual blood relative. What, like Amir didn't owe him something for all the years of love and service if he wasn't actually physically related?

maya | April 29, 2005 1:36 PM

I think Amir is redeemed in the end, through his nephew and the efforts he makes with him. Barbara, like you I found his return to prayer difficult to take, it didn't quite wash with the rational anti-religious Hassan we saw the rest of the time. Couldn't he have become a better person on his own and without Allah/God? But hey, I'm from a secular religious society and not Afghanistan, so maybe I'm wrong.

Incidentally, my job is connected with adopted children, many of whom have been through different types of early trauma and (I'm not an expert in this but) I thought Sohrab's reaction to his experiences was spot on.

danny | April 30, 2005 5:21 AM

That poor child. Sohrab broke my heart. He was so completely shut down. I was left wondering if there was much chance of him ever making a full recovery. Can you say permanent attachment disorder?

barbara | May 2, 2005 8:42 AM