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February 20, 2006

Let's start!

Hi, everyone:

I feel like it's been a while since I led a discussion that I don't know where to begin.
Let's see...

Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close

I jotted down some notes while in class today, so I'll start off the discussion with that.

sorry if this is random

We have Oskar, the 9 year old with a hyperactive mind, in search of the lock that will open with the key that hangs around his neck and close to his heart.

I don't know if anyone else (I know that Mary has) has read anything else by Jonathan Safran Foer. I found that ELaIC was a predictable JSF novel, yet at the same time, quite unpredictable.

Knowing that the story revolved around 9/11, I thought I knew what to expect. Instead, the story wasn't so much about what happened on 9/11, but a tragedy that somehow connects people of different generations together, past, present, and future as well.

What did you guys think of the plot? What kind of role or impact does the 9/11 historical precedent play here?

One of my favorite things about JSF is his storytelling technique. He travels through the past and the present, and the future (which seems like the present) in a way that other writers don't. Actually, I think it reminds me a little of Middlesex...but not much. I really like the tools that he uses for telling the story, which is usually literature or letters. We get to read letters that were written to other characters in the story (and never read) that reveal the story, but without giving too much away. And he always makes sure to come back to a place, time, and event that he already revealed just so that we can remake that connection--sometimes by retelling the same exact moment with the same character twice or with another character so that we may understand the dimensionality of the moment. With ELaIC, JSF stepped it up a notch by giving us photographic illustrations, some which seemed totally random, and some that were literal--some very moving as well...after much staring and flipping the pages like a flip-book.

For the beginning of this discussion,
my questions are simple:

Did you like the story?
Did you like the characters?
Did you like the way the novel was written?
What about some of the concepts?

Personally,
I absolutely love the story.
I really liked the characters a lot: mostly the grandfater, in the least, Oskar's mother.
The way the story is written is what draws me into it repeatedly.
I found the grandfather's loss of words and speech the most beautiful and touching concept.

I felt that Thomas, the grandfather, was the most beautiful character of the novel. He really moved me. His character was melancholic, helpless, yet unknowingly helpful to his wife, thoughtful and selfish, ... he was full of contradictions. On the other hand, his wife (i can't remember her name right now), was half oppposite. She was selfless. It was bittersweet how these two characters seemed to be perfect to each other. They were both trying to remember and forget the people they once shared, especially Anna.

Oskar seemed to me like your typical over-average 9 year old. He's a very smart kid, probably nerdy, with a hyperactive mind--which I think is a result of his father dying the way he died, the paranoia that accompanied such a tragic death, and his finding the key. He was ambitious in his plans to find that lock. We were witness to how he broke out of his ritual self-restrictions (not riding the subway, crossing bridges, talking to strangers, lying, ect.). We also witness the pain and longingness that a child experiences after the death of a parent. I was really shocked to know that he bruised himself.

As for Oskar's mother, at first, I felt like she didn't try hard enough to comfort Oskar. She was shady. Then at the end, she becomes the mother that needed to be there for Oskar all long. She knew of Oskar's whereabouts, his crazy plan for finding the lock. She basically set him up in a good way.

There's more to say, but I think this will be it for now.




comments

Ana, glad to see you were able to get your post to go through!

I really hope others had the chance to read this book because I absolutely loved it. It was funny and sad and touching and tragic.

Most of all, I loved Oskar. My day job is teaching 4th grade inclusion (special ed and general ed in the same classroom), so I couldn't help but compare him to my own 9-year-old students. His quirkiness is something you find in children with Asperger's Syndrome, a kind of high-functioning autism characterized by normal intelligence but eccentric speech, interests, and socialization. I highly suspect that JSF based Oskar on a child with AS.

His self-mutilation especially reminded me of my students. This is something I see too often at work. I had one student who pulled out her own hair and another who was afraid to eat. When children are unable to communicate their pain to others, they will take it out on themselves since they have no way of achieving catharsis. Oskar's self-bruising is likely a symptom of his inability to communicate and socialize normally.

The pictures in the book really touched me because they were Oskar's pictures. Although Ana commented that they seemed random, they show exactly what I'd expect Oskar to focus in on since he has his own perspective on the world and his adventure. Most of us take pictures of people, but Oskar zeroed in on doorknobs or his grandfather's hands. And I was especially moved at how you were supposed to flip the pages at the end of the book so the man would fall up.

Hello all,

Again I had a bit of a race to finish the book - probably shouldn't leave it until a week before the discussion to start!

Anyway, I loved Oskar. I thought he was funny, passionate, brilliantly confused and wonderful. The way he dealt with his father’s death but continued to protect his mother’s feelings by not talking about the answerphone message was touching. It struck me he was in a Catch 22 situation – clearly the message was something he couldn’t get out of his system but he did not feel he could tell his mother, there was nothing he could do, but he needed to do something before he could move on – I sympathised with that.

It was interesting to read something that engaged so directly with September 11. A lot of literature written since then is imbued with ideas/themes/political consequences from that time but I don’t think I’ve come across anything that deals with it so directly. I also liked the parallels with other tragedies in our recent history – i.e. Dresden and the fact that Ron had lost his family in a car crash brought home the fact that small scale tragedies are happening to people everywhere all the time.

Having raved about this book, I’m actually not 100 per cent keen on it (rare for me, I usually like everything). I found the passages of narration from Oskar’s grandfather difficult to follow and to take. Although I don’t generally object to symbolic ‘illnesses’ in literature, I found his muteness extremely contrived, although no doubt it is some form of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. It just didn’t work for me. But go on, persuade me otherwise...

Hey all. I listened to the audio CD of this book back when I was evacuating from Katrina, so my memory is a little hazy. I know I missed a lot of stuff by not having the printed book; I flipped through it briefly at the library but didn't get a chance to really examine each picture, etc.

I remember adoring Oskar and comparing him to the main character in The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time. I was less enthralled with the flashbacks to the grandparents' stories, at least at first; I didn't like having Oscar's story interrupted, and I wasn't sure whether I'd missed something telling me who these German people were. (That's the problem with a CD -- you can't just flip back and re-read to see what you've missed.) Near the end, when it became clear who the "renter" was, I liked the way everything came together. But Oskar's plot continues to be my fave. Oh, I adored the woman that lived in...was it the Empire State Building?

Daisy!! I can't believe your comments....we are in complete agreement. I also was reminded of "The Curious Incident" and was thoroughly annoyed by the grandparent's narrative. And your confusion was not due to the cd. I had the book and was often befuddled by "who these German people were."

Side note: when I checked the book out at the library, I noticed my copy had been defaced with a red pen. I pointed it out to the librarian and asked her to make note of it so that I would not be held responsible. I felt so foolish when we realized it was printed that way.

thanks for the insight, mary.
knowing that oskar probably had Asperger's Syndrome helps a lot in trying to understand the kind of child that he was--what i thought was eccentric for a child his age. he seemed to me more knowledgeable than other kids his age, and more eager to learn about more complicated subjects and people, like stephen hawkins (which i thought was way cool that he wrote to him and other famous people!)

i too like the photographs. the photograph where he takes the shot from the back of the head were really interesting, especially when he describes why he shot the pictures that way.

like danny mentions, i really like how ELaIC makes connections with other tragedies and compares and contrasts how people deal with tough situations.

i wonder what the experience must have been like listening to the book on cd instead of reading it. for example, how did they work out the part where Thomas, the grandfather was running out of space in his last day book and he just kept squishing all the words together and writing on top of words on top of words to fit everything that he wanted to say? i'm REALLY curious about that part. also, what about the photographs? were they mentioned on the cd? or just left out completely?
i definitely think that the book was a visual experience, not just with the photographs taken by Oskar, but the way in which the words were composed on the pages. it's very reminiscent of modern poetry.

i also thought of The Curious Incident for the obvious reason: a child narrating the story (although in ELaIC, we have different points of views). but i definitely liked Oskar better than the boy in The Curious Incident. Also, Oskar's character felt more true to a boy his age than in The Curious Incident--at least, in my opinion.

Hmmm...i think i can see why daisy was confused whenever the grandparents' part took place. how were you confused, barbara? i thought it was pretty clear. the writing style was different, the voice, and the subject matter. i don't know, i really liked that there was more to the book than just Oskar's story. and of course, like daisy, i liked how everything played out in the end. i was beginning to think that the renter was really grandma's invisible friend!

and that leads me to ask the following question, if i can get to forming the question correctly:
what time/date setting does the story take place? i completely forgot about the first chapter when oskar is telling us how he went to jiu-jitsu, and then he describes the funeral and so on...so i thought that everything was happening in the present. i then realized that most of the story is oskar narrating what happened BEFORE...and that the present is really the moment that he and the renter go to the cemetary to dig up the coffin. is that correct?

I'm curious about how they translated the book to CD too - did they maybe speed up the voice or mix it in with other voices until you could no longer pick it out?

I loved the woman in the Empire State Building - another example of the 'walking wounded' - huge amout of loss that some people carry around with them every day of their lives.

I also liked the way the stories all came together at the end. I think my main criticism is that the cryptic style of narration used for Oskar's grandfather jarred with the rest of the book, particular with Oskar's voice which is characteristic because it is very straightforward.

Oskar was a wonderful character. My favorite moment was when he took coins from his change dispenser. That tickled me to no end. The author just tosses that in with no fanfare...and it was on of the most vivid visions of our young hero.

uh...that should read: "and it was ONE of the most vivid visions of our young hero."

But really, didn't that snap your attention and give you a perfect picture of Oskar? Where and when do you ever even see those belted change dispensers anymore? What a great detail.

i still wonder if the old man from the apt. above oskar's passed away or just left the apt. to go with the lady from the empire state building? well...at least i want to think that he left to go with her.

my favorite scene with Oskar was during the Hamlet recital (p.146) and he vents his feelings in that speech. it was hilarious, great, and bold.

some of the things that i found no resolution for, like the fork clue that he dug up in central park and the circled "do not stop" phrase in the last article that his dad revised, i just took as foreshadowing to the moment that oskar goes and digs up his dad's coffin.

one of the things i'm still curious about is at the very beginning, oskar mentions on his way to the funeral how he used to be an atheist. i'm curious as to what was it that changed. i mean, i know it happens when he digs up the coffin, he realizes something, but i don't know what that something is. i guess i'm trying to figure out what is it that changed and how and why..?

THEMES:
some recurring themes that i find that JSF deals with (from previous writings,passages):
relationship between generations (grandparents, parents,children); relationship between strangers; loss/war/love; forgiveness and being able to forgive yourself; and letters or letter writing. although, i'm still wondering that the letter writing is all about.

I'm surprised that we haven't had more activity on this book considering that it is such a good one.

Kids with Asperger's Syndrome are great because their eccentricities make them so interesting. I had one student who was completely obsessed with NYC busses and could tell you where every single route went since he constantly studied the map. The down side was that he would tantrum if his mom wasn't able to take him on the bus, which is why a goal for those kids is getting them to widen their interests.

I'm not exactly sure if Oskar has Asperger's, but it makes sense how several people have compared him to the narrator in The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time. Oskar has a lot of the characteristics of autistic children, but he seems to be exceptionally high-functioning since he's able to actually break his own rules (like not going over bridges) and make contact with other people. Also similar to Curious Incident, Oskar becomes a kind of detective with trying to find the lock for his key just like Christopher tries to find out what happened to Wellington.

Like Danny, I loved how all the stories come together at the end. JSF's plot is so well-constructed that I raced to get to the end and wasn't disappointed even though it was kind of predictable. I especially liked how we never found out what was in the safe deposit box since that would have been too tidy an ending. You didn't need that payoff to make the story satisfying.

Ana, one of my favorite lines in the book is: "Just because you're an atheist, that doesn't mean you wouldn't love for things to have reasons for why they are (p.13)." I think Oskar is an intellectual atheist but he has some guilt over his father's death and that makes him want there to be more than nothingness. I seem to recall him admitting that he was home the last time his father called but not answering the phone. His guilt causes him to go out and buy the same answering machine and keep the one with the messages as his own secret.

I'm not sure Oskar is autistic/Aspergers either, though he clearly has a lot of these traits and a lot in common with the Curious Incident boy. I think maybe he becomes obessive compulsive and develops a lot of paranoia from the trauma of how he lost his father. I mentioned Post Traumatic Stress Disorder in connection with Oskar's grandfather, but it's perfectly possible that this is what Oskar is suffering from too, and maybe partly explains why and how these two are able to help each other.

i thought the grandma was an admirable woman.
she was very brave in all aspects.
i loved the whole thing about her typing her life story without ink.
i remember thomas saying something about her eyes really being crummy this whole time, and how he misunderstood.
but i think later in the story, she said that she really didn't have crummy eyes?
she knew that the spool was basically done?

i completely agree with danny.
there was a point when i started thinking that the way that jonathan behaved and rationalized things, especially the paranoia (wearing white because white stays intact during an a-bomb) was a result of the tragic death of his father.
and u'r right. that's probably why he and his grandfather were able to get along so well.

also, i wanted to point out.
i'm sure u guys have heard of The Best American Non-Required Reading.
in the 2003 edition, JSF has a small piece in there (so does the fake Navaho Nasdijj or however u spell his name).
it's the most hilarious short piece i've ever read.
anyway, in ELaIC, the part where oskar is counting down to the things he loves most in life, his grandma tells him that she hopes he never loves anyone as much as she loves him.
that part right there came out of that piece that's in the Best American Non-Required Reading.
in the short piece it was funny. but in this book, wow, it completely changes in context and mood.

just want to say thanks to those of you who participated in the discussion.

 

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